Afghanistan

*Godfather* · 03-05-2006, 12:53 PM

So, as most of you should have heard, the Americans are now backing out of Afghanistan and control of one of the most dangerous regions is being handed over to Canadian forces.

Today in the paper, I have read that a fellow Vancouverite is in critical condition after being struck in the head with a battle axe in an ambush while talking with tribal elders. It angers me, naturally, and has me wondering.

Why are the US troops being pulled out? Why did they never even commit a substancial ammount of men? Why is Canada being given partial control of a country that American forces should be watching over, as the reason for the invasion is an attack on their soil?

It all just seems so wrong, and I'm not sure I support Canadians being in Afghanistan any more.

Thoughts?

**Dragoness_Cutie** · 03-05-2006, 01:01 PM

I don't support Canada being there... but then, I only support Americans being there as much is as necessary to capture Osama Bin Laden. After that, we should pull out. You'd think they'd have got him by now too!

*Godfather* · 03-05-2006, 01:18 PM

Quoting: Dragoness_Cutie

I don't support Canada being there... but then, I only support Americans being there as much is as necessary to capture Osama Bin Laden. After that, we should pull out. You'd think they'd have got him by now too!

I supported Canada supporting the US...if that makes any sence

We felt 9/11 here a great deal too, as we did when the bombs went off in London.

What I dont like seeing is Canada being left in charge after the Americans decide they have more important things to do like gaurd oil fields or the Korean border, instead of finding the guy who ordered the terrorist attacks on September 11. It sort of baffles me that we let ourselves get backed into a corner like this.

I'll always support the troops, but I feel let down by the government on this one; and would be slightly supprised if most Americans didnt find this a bit off too.

http://www.afterseppuku.com/gallery/files/2/09fb9c236528efa1afc51f2a590346.gif

Modus Vivendi

*G_Man* · 03-05-2006, 01:21 PM

Canada should pull out too. Our being in Afghanistan was just ....

Jaysus... I can't even go there today.

**Dragoness_Cutie** · 03-05-2006, 01:24 PM

Oh I understand, and as an American, I appreciate all the other countries that have been supporting us in this supposed war on terror. I just think that we should go in, kill Osama, and get the fuck out and back into our own country.

Of course... this is the same girl who thinks that we should have never been in Iraq in the first place, and would much prefer it if all the troops in all the other dangerous places Americans are stationed around the world that we don't belong were pulled out and brought home too.

Don't think we've any right to be sticking our noses in the business of the rest of the world like we do. Now if they ask for our help, fine, but most of them don't want us there!

That's my two cents.

*Godfather* · 03-05-2006, 01:28 PM

Quoting: Dragoness_Cutie

Oh I understand, and as an American, I appreciate all the other countries that have been supporting us in this supposed war on terror. I just think that we should go in, kill Osama, and get the fuck out and back into our own country.

Of course... this is the same girl who thinks that we should have never been in Iraq in the first place, and would much prefer it if all the troops in all the other dangerous places Americans are stationed around the world that we don't belong were pulled out and brought home too.

Don't think we've any right to be sticking our noses in the business of the rest of the world like we do. Now if they ask for our help, fine, but most of them don't want us there!

That's my two cents.

I hear ya

However, those are Isolationist policies. They were around in the Interwar period in America, and sure didnt help prevent WWII.

I've heard people talk about how terribly similar the world situation is today compaired to pre-WWII. That probably means nothing, but all I mean is that America does have to take some place in the world. You're the greatest power in the world, unrivalled. Militarily, you may not be the largest, but easily the most powerful. Americans in a way, need to acnoledge they're a superpower, yet be more responcible. Iraq is not a good example of this!

Modus Vivendi

**Dragoness_Cutie** · 03-05-2006, 01:36 PM

Yes, I know we're a superpower and have a great military... blah, blah, blah... but for the most part, the rest of the world hates us. No wonder 9/11 happened! No wonder we've had embassies bombed and/or threatened to be bombed around the world. We stick our noses where they don't belong and the rest of the world doesn't appreciate it. All I'm saying is that if our help is actually asked for, I have no qualms about us deploying troops, but when we aren't... like in certain cases now, we just shouldn't be there.

wIggy · 03-05-2006, 03:15 PM

Afghanistan didn't ask for our help...but nobody had problems about my friends going, I deployed to Bahrain for almost 6 months immediately after 9/11 and supported an air refueling mission for the fighters flying over Afghanistan..I'm a bit divided on this thread. I don't understand why we are backing out, almost no notice as it would seem, however, people are so quick to say "the rest of the world hates us" and that doesn't make it right to ignore all the bad things going on in the world. WWII has been mentioned a few times here, and that had been going on long before we ever got involved, people look at WWII as a difining moment in America's short history, but those were simpler times it seems, we may be technologically advanced, but we're not winning this war on terrorism, not yet, and we're only inching toward success as it is. I'm just rambling here, but it kind of bothers me to hear people say "we arent' wanted there anyway" or "no wonder we were attacked, the whole world hates us" I don't remember what I was trying to say, but I think I've said too much

**Dragoness_Cutie** · 03-05-2006, 03:24 PM

The only justification I see in us being in Afghanistan to begin with is to get Osama Bin Laden for him attacking us.

I don't know, maybe my reasoning or way I see things doesn't make much sense to other people, but from what I remember of living overseas... our government and the way it tried to take charge of everything that happens elsewhere was far from loved. And I can easily see where that dislike could grow into hatred, and hatred into wanting revenge, thus attacks on us and our embassies. Maybe the way I said it before came out wrong... hope this sounds a bit easier to understand my point of view.

I'm not saying that it is wrong of us to try to help others in crisis or whatever, but I do think we often go where our help isn't asked or wanted.

wIggy · 03-05-2006, 03:52 PM

whatever our government was doing overseas, it's by mutual agreement with the government of the country we are doing it with, and many times the population of that country doesn't agree with it's government's decision to allow the US to do whatever it is they're doing. If American's are garrisoned in a country, it is by permission of the government of that specific country, that doesnt' justify anyone attacking innocent civilians. I guess we can kind of relate it to this port deal that's going on, many Americans that may not know better, or think they DO know better are going to be very angry with the United Arab Emirates, for no justifiable reason, I can anticipate some vandalism, and anti-arab sentiment for a while around those ports. Now put that on a much larger scale, and you can see how things get out of control very quickly. It's so popular and "cool" and easy for someone who is European to say "stupid Americans" or "ignorant/arrogant Americans" but for what reason? I agree, maybe Bush doesn't make great decisions but what are we going to do about it at this point, he's been re-elected so obviously enough people thought he was still fit to perform. But this is our "issue" what does the common, average French person, or average German person know about how things are run around here?

*G_Man* · 03-05-2006, 04:02 PM

Unfortunately I have to disagree with you there, buddy. Foreigners know far more about the world and the US than Americans do about their nations.

And, a lot of our occupation of other nations is FAR from by some happy agreed upon deal between the governments. We were an Army of Occupation in Germany until 1991. Many Germans hated us simple because we such. In fact, technically, German Law did not even apply to me while I was there, as I was 'above the law' as an occupying soldier.

Same applies to the former Yugoslavia and Macedonia.

wIggy · 03-05-2006, 04:09 PM

hmmm, maybe not happily agreed upon, but agreed upon none the less, and as an occupation force in Germany, that was agreed upon by someone right? I'm not saying we know more about other nations than they know of ours, I'm saying we are the ones who deal with most of what's going on....I dont know how to put this into words...I guess, it's like this...My friend has a Turkish wife here, He and I work together, she told me that somethings going wrong with the education system, we're not quite up to speed with Europe ( I take her word because she's getting her master's degree as an english teacher) and for the majority of the people in the United States, we don't know where on a map, Turkey is. It's kind of sad, and not only Turkey, if you were to give a senior high school graduate a map of the world and ask them to find Afghanistan, or Iraq on a map, they would have to search the map for it. Now do the same with a European with an equivalent education, and it's instantaneous, for the most part. It's not our fault, that things are in the condition they are. We can do something about it, but I shouldn't be blamed for policies that were made when my parents were still in diapers. I'm sorry that Germans were pissed off about the American's occupation, but they made some bad choices a long long time ago and it was necessary at the time, thank goodness we got them fixed though, right?

*G_Man* · 03-05-2006, 04:19 PM

How can you say the Germans made some bad choices? Most scholars agree the WW2 had to happen, namely because of the Treaty of Versailles, or the Germans would have starved to death. Our occupation of Germany was to stave off the Russians. Period. So, we took over a country to protect ourselves against the Russians. Yet, we lacked the courage to attack the Soviet Union back when we actually could have done something about it.

As for my parents, blah blah blah... yeah, I agree. Kind of like the slavery issue. However, when you have greedy leaders like Bush, being supported by us, resentments are bound to happen.

And seriously, this is all kind of silly. We have only punished ourselves by letting Big Brother capitalize on our fear. First of all, terrorism in the US has never been a huge risk. Secondly, the amount of people killed on 9/11 is 10% of the death toll on our highways EVERY YEAR!

Imagine if we spent 350BILLION DOLLARS on our schools and education and public transportation!!! We would likely save FAR more lives than finding Osama would....